Choosing the Right Path: Individual Practitioner or Multi-Advisor Business with Dean and Candace

Voice Over (00:01)

Welcome to the FAST Podcast, your go-to source for financial advisor strategy talks, hosted by me, Candace Byrnes, the Lead Creative Designer on the marketing team at White Glove, and with me, I have Dean Thurman, Cofounder of both White Glove and Invest Wise Financial. Join us as we dive into valuable insights from industry experts, providing actionable tips to accelerate your success. 

Candace Byrnes (00:25)

Thank you for joining us for another episode of the FAST Podcast with myself, Candice, and with me I have Dean.  

Today we are going to be talking, just the two of us, I mean, Dean is really going to be deep diving into some answers. We are going to talk about the major inflection points in a financial advisor's career, we are going to be going over all the different expectations to have when deciding to be an individual practitioner or operating a multi -advisor business and really anything in between that can be an option or a path that anybody can take within the huge FA industry.

Dean, you are such a great person to hear from on this topic just due to your massive network through White Glove and through Invest Wise. I mean, you are talking with hundreds of advisors every year, I mean, new and old. Also, just seeing so many different examples and ways to run a business, I think that you are a great person to talk to about all of those struggles, maybe some consequences of one or the other, some advantages, disadvantages, pros, and cons.

We are going to get into all of it. Who is the right type of person for each side and just kind of how to create the path or follow a path that might be best for you, And I am sure that even changes along the way. So, I am very excited to hear all of your insight on such a massive topic, but we are going to really try to home in on a lot of these ideas here.

Dean Thurman (01:51) 

Well, thank you, Candace. I have really been looking forward to this particular episode and the topic because our industry is such a fantastic industry and so many good men and women get into this industry to help people. Though, there is really no clear career path. It is a very complicated timeline and decision points along the way throughout your career. I have been doing this for 34 years and like you said, I interact with a lot of people. One thing I learned is, there is no right or wrong way to develop your career. It is whatever is right for you, and I do not think many people realize that early on in their career, because the first few years is really about survival. The vast majority of people that get registered or licensed in our industry fade away within the first two or three years. If you make it five years, that is a real success story. You have likely figured out some type of marketing plan, whether it is seminars or something else.  

I think seminars are by far the best way to build a book of business. Maybe you have partnered with somebody, maybe you have somebody in the industry, maybe somebody in the family. After those five years, it is really decision-making time.  

It is like: “Hey, do I want to work for a bank, a wire house? Do I want to work for an independent broker dealer or a big national firm? Do I want to be a boutique? Do I want to have a lifestyle business? Do I want to be a solo practitioner? Do I want to have other advisors underneath me or do I want to be underneath somebody else? And that really is what today's episode is about. The pros and cons of some of those decision points.

Candace Byrnes (03:48)

Yeah, so before we even get into the pros and cons or the differences between any of those paths, let us start from the beginning.  

Tell me a little bit about that five-year time about which you are talking. That is right before you even get into making that career path decision.

Dean Thurman (04:07) 

Oh my gosh, that is the worst. That is the absolute worst time in any advisor's career. It is filled with everything from super excitement when you get a new client to crushing rejection from that new client that says, “do you know what, I have changed my mind, cancel all the paperwork, I am going in a different direction.” It happens to all of us.  

It is the first five years; I say a roller coaster would be too kind. It is more like you are in a washing machine going through a woodchipper on a roller coaster. It is really, really tough.

Especially if you try and build your own career from scratch, which is why a lot of people, and this is one regret I have probably in my career, why a lot of people start off with a big warehouse, like I'll use some names like Meril Lynch or UBS, Morgan Stanley, they have fantastic training programs, they help you get registered and licensed, and other people like myself find a small boutique financial planning firm and just have that guy or woman who runs the show there be a mentor a little bit. Like I say, there is no right or wrong, but I wish I would have gone the big route first before ending up where I am today as an independent advisor.  

Candace Byrnes (05:38)

We will definitely have to dive into that statement right there throughout the episode then for sure, because that is really interesting. I feel like that is eye opening for anybody who is making a decision now or even in the very beginning. So, it is interesting to hear you say that.  

Now let us dive in. I know that a lot of our listeners already know, but just to kind of get a start to more of the technical side of today's episode, let us dive into the pros and cons of both sides of that story that somebody can choose.  

Dean Thurman (06:07) 

I will tell you what, that is a great question, Candace. There are massive pros and massive cons to making those decisions about how to affiliate yourself in this industry and then how big or small of a group do you want to work with. It is not a small pro and con like, should I have chocolate chip ice cream or mint chocolate chip ice cream? This is massive.

Again, there is no right or wrong. It has a lot to do with the opportunities that are in front of you, but also your own individual personality type. You have to have some self -awareness, and you also have to have a discussion with your family. Usually in your late twenties or early thirties, when you are making all these really big decisions, there is a lot more than just you that you have to consider. When you are thinking about risk taking and getting over to starting your own firm, let us say, how much traveling you are going to have to do.  

The first big decision really is do I want to work for a wire house? Do I want to work for just an RIA? Do I want to be insurance only?  

So, I suggest that everybody really talks to other folks in the industry, really looks at themselves and see what they really like. I work with people right now that love dealing with 401ks, big corporate 401ks, right? One hundred participants, thousand participants, they love that B2B aspect. Other people love to really use advanced insurance strategies to help small business owners. Others like me, I like to work with a massive fluent, you know, people with anywhere from 500,000 to a few million. Then you have the folks that gravitate towards the very high net worth or ultra-high net worth clients. the sports athletes or the business icons and that type of thing. Every career path that you might choose is filled with, and this is why I love the industry so much, a lot of story problems. Every situation is a little different than the one that you had before and some of them are a lot different. It really keeps your brain sharp; the industry is always changing, and you will see all different types of opportunities of which direction to go in your career.  

The first real step is what do I want to be? What do I really like? What do I enjoy? Because you are going to be stuck with it for Thirty or forty years after that.  

Candace Byrnes (08:53)

So then, I mean, getting into it, what would you say are the major advantages that you have seen being in your current situation now?  

Dean Thurman (09:03) 

All right, well thank you. I guess I should describe my current situation a little bit.  

Candace Byrnes (09:07)

Yeah, that would work.  

Dean Thurman (09:09) 

I affiliate with an independent broker dealer, right? Independence means that you can start your own firm however you want to start it. You can be a solo practitioner, and a lot of people that are solo practitioners might answer their own phones, set their own appointments, obviously meet with clients, do their own paperwork. Maybe they have one support or two support people. That is a great lifestyle business. You can make a lot of money and help a lot of people, with maximum flexibility in your, in your calendar. There is nobody really to bounce things off of, nobody to team up with, but it also gives you the most amount of flexibility.

That is why a lot of people eventually move there. I started out that way, a modified approach to that, and eventually learned that I really loved marketing. Myself and my cousin Mike Thurman, who is also a co -founder of White Glove, who is also a financial advisor, loved marketing.  

Soon we found that we had more than enough leads and prospects in the funnel that we just could not handle anymore. So almost by accident, we started hiring what we call sub reps. we split the revenue so that for many of their clients, 50 -50 Ish and there is all different ways to, cut that cake, if you will, between the OSJ like ourselves, Office of Supervisory Jurisdiction and a sub rep.

We just had so much marketing, you know, a lot of advisors are like, hey, I want to affiliate with you because I do not have anybody to see, and I am about to fail out of the business if I do not have some leads. So, we say, hey, we got extra. Next thing you know, we had two, then three, then five. Now I think we have eleven or twelve folks that are our sub reps. And their mindset is a little bit different than mine and Mike's. So, let us kind of talk about that a little bit.

We have, of the eleven or twelve other financial advisors in our firm, we have some that absolutely love to just do their own thing. Now, we supervise them for compliance reasons and whatnot, but we do not dictate when they come, when they leave. They are 100 % revenue -based with managed money and commissions, and they do not get any salary at all. They love that combination of total flexibility on their part, but still, there is somebody else who has to pay the bills for rent, deal with what phone system to use, what copier to use, the receptionist is out sick, somebody else makes all those decisions for them and they are basically a business within a business. Again, there is no right or wrong with that. In fact, I am kind of jealous of those folks quite a bit because that is a much more peaceful existence as a financial advisor. That is what I chose kind of by default to have.

Many sub reps in marketing just keeps going more and more and more, so we just keep growing more and more. Those same sub reps, if you will, maybe did not come to work for somebody that had a lot of marketing, they might go to work for a bank or a wire house. A lot of times, if you work at a bank, you have a natural stream, steady stream of potential clients that have balances at the bank and the tellers share that information with you and you sit down and see if there is an alternative investment opportunity for that person that is a client of the bank. So, that is a very comfortable way to be too, now you are really into corporate America. If you are with Bank ABC, let us say, they make all the rules. They tell you when to get there, when to leave, what to recommend, what not to recommend. There is not nearly as much flexibility in your schedule, but you get a lot of stability with that. You really have to think about your personality and also your needs. Do you need leads? Do you need that structure? Do you need more training, or do you want, want to do your own thing? So that is the first really big decision, and you will make that decision first, like say between year five and year ten.

so, you are already registered, you are licensed, now you are going to decide what direction you go. Then you are going to think, I will call them rebels or people that are just really big risk takers. They might spin out on their own, start their own firm, sign on the dotted line for rent, the leases for all the different equipment, go out and find a broker dealer or an FN, or an insurance company to work with and have all those decisions on their shoulders. When we did that, Mike and I made a lot of mistakes, so that is a really big con with going the independent route. There are pros and cons to doing either one.  

Candace Byrnes (14:26)

Are there any of those mistakes that you would want to hop into so far?

Dean Thurman (14:32) 

Yeah, I want to be careful what I say. I do not want to use any names here. But there is different kinds of people with which you can affiliate. When we had so many extra leads, we thought the best option of what subadvisors to bring into our firm would be the real go -getters. Well, the people that are real go -getters a lot of time that have high energy and really want to get out there and market themselves, of course, that sounds like a great person, but then they do not want to be underneath somebody else, if you will. They end up going out on their own and there is all kinds of conflict that happens with that, so that was a big mistake. Saying, hey, do you know what? That is a great person, and they are going to be a great advisor, but that is not the right person in the right seat for our firm. And our firm, we wanted the people that really were, they did not want to build their own business.  

Candace Byrnes (15:28)

Like they almost wanted someone to lean on.  

Dean Thurman (15:30) 

Absolutely. That is a good way to put it. They wanted somebody to lean on.  

You know, we have a boutique firm and so I think it is the best of both worlds because you can do your own thing, but you have a group that you can kind of, you know, work with, and collaborate with a little bit. Then, I talked to other advisors that are extremely successful that might work for a big wire house, or a bank and they cannot imagine doing it any other way themselves either.

So, this career is so fruitful and so fantastic and offers so many opportunities for people. I want to say you can hardly quote on quote go wrong.

As long as you do the right thing for the customer, just look at your own personality, you know? The people that are closest to you in your life, you kind of make that decision on what direction to go.

Candace Byrnes (16:18)

So then touching on personality.  

I feel like I can kind of gauge where the answer will be, but I am really curious to hear if it is something different than what I am already noticing.

Would you say that like someone who is extremely outgoing, like you said, a go getter, they are picking up, they are willing to put in the grind, really doing the work, which would maybe be someone better as a solo practitioner? or would you say the other way around?

Dean Thurman (16:46) 

I would say that person is going to thrive no matter which direction they go.  

Candace Byrnes (16:50)

That is fair.  

Dean Thurman (16:51) 

Because even if you go and work for a big warehouse, you are still building a business within a business. The difference is the ownership if that's the right word the ownership in the rights to continue to work with those clients if you decide to make a change Can be different Like usually when you're an independent or something you have more we will call it control over if the clients can follow you or not. The wire houses feel “hey, you have been using our name to build your business within a business.  

So really, we have to look at things a little bit differently. that is a major difference, and if it is okay with you, Candace, I also would not mind getting into the nitty gritty a little bit about payouts and office sharing and expenses.  

Candace Byrnes (17:41)

Yeah, absolutely. You kind of touched on it and I had put it in the back of my head earlier when you were talking about when you and Mike had started things off and you went fifty -fifty and then you started getting these sub reps.  

So, I wanted to, I do not know if it is best for you to go into your own personal experience there of how you kind of tackled that, I do not want to say like problem or anything, but how did you take care of all that and just make those decisions? Is there a norm? or is it kind of a free for all when it comes to every firm?  

Dean Thurman (18:16) 

I am going to expose myself a little bit here, and that is a lot of it is a guess.  

Quite frankly, here is a little business secret. If you happen to be a leader of a team of some sort, you know, you have to look and sound confident. They do not need to know that all this is a guess. If it works out, then great, you feel smart, and they think you are really smart. If it does not work out so well, you quickly pivot, and do something else and with a good attitude and confidence you are right back at it.

A lot of mistakes were made, a lot of guesses were made, and now we are talking, you know, decades later that I can look in the rear-view mirror along with Mike and others. I can see so many other careers that have thrived, and again, there is no right or wrong way to do all this.  

I am going to tell you a little bit about how we do it because I know a lot of our listeners are always curious when I do a lot of coaching for White Glove and Acquire Direct and Lead Jig. Some are coaching, but almost every time the advisors, they ask me what my deal is as a financial advisor, what the sub reps deal are, how do you share expenses, how do you share revenue? And there is all different flavors. And FMOs handle it different than RIAs and warehouses handle it different as well. But if you have some flexibility in there, know, and some control and some discussion, there is really three different aspects to building a business for an individual advisor. The more of those three, one side of the equation takes on than the other, they should probably get a bigger share of the revenue. So, they talk about hunters versus farmers, there is different types of advisors. If you are more of a hunter, you usually get a higher payout. You are a rainmaker, you are bringing in business, fresh business into the office.  

If you are a farmer, which is great, you are doing more of the maintenance with the clients and meeting with them. Those folks, a lot of times, are more of a salaried position and do not have as high earning potential, but also not really high risk. So, what we do at our office is after our broker dealer takes their share, and most broker dealers, I will not get specific about payouts for myself, but most broker dealers pay out between like 83 % and 93%, depending on office production, right? So, let us just pick a number of 90%, right? So, if 90 % comes into the office, the way we do it, the office pays for everything. They pay for all of the rent, the common employees, the ones that we call, she runs the office of first impressions, right? The lobby, she handles the payroll and all that. Then we have a communications person, a seminar coordinator and we have five or six people that are just, you know, support for the office. The office pays for that one hundred percent. We also have a lot of paperwork support, and you know, the men and women that handle all the transfers and the paperwork, usually the office pays either 100 % for that person or 50 % and splits it with the advisor. And I will get into that in just a minute. But essentially, if $100 comes in, into the office, so that means the office really, or the advisor made GDC, gross dealer, concession of like $111. So now $100 comes into the office after the broker dealer takes their $11. The office typically would take $50. And the sub advisor would take the other $50. And the office pays all those expenses and hopefully there is room for profit in there with the $50 that the office takes, Then the advisor has none of the worry or the expense of the staff and the rent and all that and the support, but then they end up with the you know, we will call it pure profit.

So, that gets a little technical in there, but I think a little bit more typical a lot of time is kind of “a third a third a third.” Well, what do you mean by “a third a third a third?” There is only two entities here really, the office and then the advisor. Well, there is people that go out there and find all the leads and bring them in, right? That could be the advisor, or it could be the office. Then there is the people that see then close the initial business, and then the folks that, you know, service that as in the farmer.  

I have seen people say, well, each of those three functions should get 33 % of the revenue that comes into the office. Then that is up to the advisor whether or not they want to land the client and continue servicing them, or if they want to just hand that off to somebody else.

So, there is a lot of ways to slice that, what did I say earlier, the cake? I am a pie guy, slice the pie. So again, there is no right or wrong with any of that, but you want everybody to be happy. That is the challenge. Everybody to be happy, and you always deal with different personalities. However, in a smaller boutique firm like ours, you can adjust things a little bit differently for this person than somebody else. Maybe somebody wants to take a lot more time off, so they are going to hire a second support person. In that case, we usually say, okay, well, you pay for half of that second person, and we will pay half for that second person too.  

So, there is a lot of different ways to skin that cat, slice the pie, or cut the cake. Even in the in the warehouses, they give you a lot of flexibility on that too.

Candace Byrnes (24:27)

So, then I know that you mentioned marketing and you said that Mike and you noticed that you both loved marketing and that is how you ended up in this really good problem to have where you had too many leads. That is kind of what led to this whole hiring on more help, more support then and then having these sub reps and stuff. So, with that, explain to me, these support costs and stuff that you are having a portion of your commission or whatever go towards that, goes towards the office. When you are on your own or just a solo practitioner, would you say that with those costs do most people still hire support staff for themselves or is it just more of a you have less time to yourself because you are doing all of this yourself?

Dean Thurman (25:15) 

That is a really good question again. You know, it depends on a lot of things. Some advisors that I have run into over the last couple of years, really measure their success by the limited amount of time that they spend in the office, believe it or not. Not so much on the amount of revenue that they are bringing in or the amount of support that they have. That is what is so great about this industry. You can take it any direction that you want. When somebody is, let us say a solo practitioner or a really small firm that has all that flexibility the buck 100% starts and stops with them. They can choose to work a lot harder, and make more money You know, but more money more problems. That is how some people look at it and other people say hey more money more happiness Let us just keep going that way. So, you just have to look at yourself and say what do I need to pay my bills? So, I can feel comfortable in life. Then also really look for, it is not called work -life balance anymore. It is work -life harmony, because with so much technology blending over into the home life, you really want to have the work -life harmony.

So that is some of the different ways that you can set up your practice. I am also happy to talk and coach with anybody. I love talking about this stuff with others. And I always learn something from how those folks are setting up their office as well.

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Now let us get back to the show.

Candace Byrnes (27:35)

So, okay, do you feel like we have covered a lot of the more technical side of the pay structure and as we have said a million times, cutting the cake.

If we have gotten past that, I do have some more personal level questions than to ask. Just as far as like, I hate to keep saying make that decision, because you have made it very clear that there is so many different paths, and I love that outlook too. The more that you and I have talked, it has made it clear to me that even within those paths that there are, there is so many different ways that you can run your business.

With that, how would you say that just being a financial advisor alone, I am sure, as It seems to me in my experience in the industry that it is a very time consuming and the work life harmony seems to be something that you really have to keep in mind if it is something that is important to you or else you will be like one of these few people that you have mentioned that fail out in the first five years because they might not be able to keep up or it might just not be for them, like that grind and that hard work.  

So, tell me, and I do not even know if this is an easy question to answer, but when deciding on any of these paths, if you can even just touch on a few, is there a certain path or decision that you can make that might be better suit for someone who is not necessarily equipped for that stress level or maybe needs a little bit taken off of them or they want more family time or like you said they value success more so in how much time is spent in the office not necessarily in revenue so that is a very open -winded question, but if you can kind of get where I am going of just what would be the paths available to someone who is not equipped for that that type of stress level?

Dean Thurman (29:40) 

Yeah. You are talking about the smart people. People that do not want to have a lot of sleepless nights and tough decisions with the spouse and all that kind of thing. First of all, I said every option is great no matter where you go. There is one exception to that and that is working with jerks. There is a lot of jerks in every industry, right? certainly, there is some in our industry. So, surround yourself with good people and you cannot go wrong in this industry. Not just the good clients, but your coworkers, the support. If you are just more of a person that does not want to deal with all that stress and how do I market? who do I hire, and should we move the office? Should we change broker dealers? Then finding somebody that you like, and trust, which has a lot of compassion that really, you know, all of our sub reps, we do not speak in those terms like I am today. We are business partners. Sometimes I will be at a dinner party or something and say, yeah, this is my boss, Dean, or someone else, we work together, we are partners, we split revenue. You really want to be somebody that when they win you win. Someone that is invested in your success and not just your financial success, but also your personal success, right? Somebody that cares about your family and wants to make sure that you do good for you, whatever your definition of success is. If you can find that type of person to partner with, work for, work with, man, you have hit the lottery. Hang onto that person. We have a lot of them here at White Glove, we have a lot of them in our financial planning firm. You just want to make sure that you are with the right people. Then you really cannot go wrong.

It is not so much about what path should you pick? I mean pretty obvious you are not going to be the person that you know has to make all those decisions, right? Now you have to decide do I work with a wire house or an independent broker dealer and FMO? None of those really matter it just matters that when you are talking to the people that you are going to be working with, there Is a really good connection. You can tell that they are a really good person.  

Candace Byrnes (32:04)

I like that. Yeah, I swear I am not paid to say this, but I really love the people that I work with here at White Glove.  

Dean Thurman (32:12) 

And they love you too, Candace.

I hear that all the time.

Candace Byrnes (32:14)

I can stand behind that. I think that when work gets stressful, there is no way around it. It is going to happen, but you are right. I think that if you have the support and you are not dealing with jerks, like you said, it makes a big difference.  

When you make the decision, it goes back to just having a really good problem. Having too many leads and wanting to help everybody, but also maybe not being able to give everyone the same amount of care and love that you want because there is just too many and now, you are having to turn people away.

So, when you sat down, tell me a little bit about the decision-making process or like what you and Mike looked at and talked about and like “should we do this?” Was it kind of a like, yes, this is going to happen or was there any pushback or fears in that time?  

Dean Thurman (33:47) 

There are fears every day, no matter which way you go. I do not think that our path and our decision tree, if you will, throughout our careers for financial planning careers are any different than anybody else's. That is why I really was looking forward to this podcast, because I remember just always wondering, am I doing it right? Am I doing it wrong? What are other people doing? You know, what do they know that I do not know? If you do not get anything else out of this podcast, I really want people that are listening, that are at those inflection points in their career that nobody has it figured out. There is no cookie cutter, “this is the best way to go.” It is the way that gets you to reach your goals both personally as well as professionally. Remember that work life harmony.

That is what is so awesome about this career. Do not ever, I will not say second guess yourself, I know that there is people that go, and they work for this FMO or work for that RIA or whatever. Then they decide, my gosh, that was a terrible mistake. I got to pivot. It is almost always because of the people that were there. They just did not believe in those people or the vision of those folks. Really get hooked up with the right people and you will quickly realize they are not and then you make a quick pivot.  

That is what I would suggest.  

Candace Byrnes (35:16)

Okay. Great. I want to actually do my own little pivot here in our conversation, play on words.

so, leaning into more of like a client's perspective, I actually have another question that I came up with while we have just been talking and totally feel free to be like, no, Candice, that is not a thing, but I am curious from what conversations that you had with clients when you and Mike made this switch, Because I am just really stuck on how it had to have been a really big change for you guys starting all of this out, but also still working with your clients. Did you feel like you got a lot of support from clients when you made the switch to open Invest Wise? or start bringing on some of sub advisors and stuff? Or did you feel like there was a little bit of nervousness from your clients?  

Dean Thurman (36:13) 

That is a good question, and I am going to answer it a little different way because my clients never knew that we expanded and hired sub reps. Remember, they are seeing new people. We had too much marketing. So, all these new people coming in are not seeing me. They are seeing the new sub reps. However, about six or seven years ago when I was in the say the seventh inning of my career, which I think will go into extra innings. I really had to step back to help oversee White Glove and help lead White Glove. That is when I brought in a very trusted, mature financial advisor to sit with me as a co -planner. that is a whole another episode in and of itself of how once you get in the seventh or eighth inning of your career, how do you set up the succession plan and make it fair for everybody and that continuity of care to each of your clients? Which I think is really the crutch of your question.  

So, they did not notice it because they were not affected. My clients were not affected when Mike and I decided to hire sub reps, but they certainly were when I brought another team member and now, I have two that, for the last five years that are meeting with my clients with me and many times, without me.  

We will have to cover that question in its own episode.

Candace Byrnes (37:39)

I had no idea if it was going to be a deep one, or not.  

Dean Thurman (37:43) 

It is so deep; we cannot even cover it here.  

Candace Byrnes (37:46)

Wonderful!

Well then even that, I mean, I think it is great to like round out all of this staying on that client perspective. So, with it, do you feel like there is a type of advisor that is best for someone when they are trying to decide who to work with? If that is a solar practitioner or if it is someone in one of these larger advisory firms? I know that obviously there is no right or wrong answer, but I do not know if there is a way to necessarily say that someone, a certain type of person should pair themselves up with a certain type of advisor.  

Dean Thurman (38:25)

That is a very complex question. You know, the quality of care that a client receives can somewhat be determined by the type of firm that their financial advisor works for, works with, or runs. An example here, back to the high net worth, I just happened to coincidentally have dinner with somebody, a new family friend, and he is a very successful doctor. He asked me what I do, and I am thinking, maybe I will get a new client, right? He starts telling me about his brother -in -law and his brother -in -law, I told him about the seminars that we did and so forth. He talks about how his brother -in -law is a great financial advisor and deals with all the clients of, you know, local sports celebrities and that type of thing, and how this other advisor has charisma like crazy. He is a scratch golfer. Everybody wants to be with that person. That is If you are a really high complex, affluent person, you probably need to affiliate with somebody that has a whole structure behind them, a whole network behind them that can help with private banking and alternative investments and all kinds of things that people that have fifty million dollars or more really need to think about.

If you are a massive fluent or even somebody just getting started, it really does not matter if your financial advisor works for a wire House, a bank, independent broker dealer, an FMO, an RIA. As long as you are with a good, caring, quality, trustworthy person that will give you the attention that you deserve as far as how they go about helping you is not the most important thing.

Assuming that they are using really good investment vehicles, and they are ethical, and they are not these big high commission, you know, things that are of the past. So, I hope that answers your question.

Candace Byrnes (40:36)

Yeah, no, it does.  

It answered it further, honestly, than I expected, because I know that, that was a very open ended, how are you supposed to say who is right and who is wrong?

Dean Thurman (40:49)

I want to tag on to something on that, too, by the way. When there is a consumer out there, if they go to the dentist or the hair salon or something like that, you want to get somebody that really knows you and likes you and all that stuff. Alot of times that is kind of, you are with them for a year or two or three or something, it is not a big deal. Or, it is just a transaction, your accountant, or your lawyer, and then you switch. Financial advisor, I mean, most people hire a financial advisor in their 50s or 60s. They do not want to be switching that again in their 70s or 80s.  

The consumer has to work with somebody that they can stand looking at for the next 20 or 30 years, two or three times a year. That personality needs to be there and that commonality.  

Candace Byrnes (41:40)

Really, that is bigger than anything.  

Dean Thurman (41:42)

That is a really big piece of it for sure.

Candace Byrnes (41:44)

We talk about that all the time of how much that obviously you need to know what you know and be good at what you do, but you have to connect with someone.  

Dean Thurman (41:55)

Connect. That is a great word for it. Yeah, it has to be a good connection.  

Candace Byrnes (41:57)

Well, I love all of this, and I do feel like there is so much that we could have “dove” even further into. We will as episodes come out.  

I want to ask you, earlier, you had said you had made tons of mistakes along the way, which I always love that about you, that you're willing to admit these things because it only helps other people that are listening and other people that are anywhere along their journey, you know, to get to where you are or to get somewhere on their own journey.  

So, with that, I want to ask you in relation to this topic, what is something that you would have done differently before having seen and experienced and witnessed all of these other facets of the financial industry and financial careers around you? What is something that you would have maybe changed back then, even if it does not mean that it would change now?  

Dean Thurman (42:52)

Do you know what, as you were talking, I was thinking, I do not really have any. Then I thought, wait, no, there is that one, then there is that one, and then there is that one. So, a few of them. Number one, I never got my CFP. And I think that that is something that I really wish that I would have gotten. That is kind of the gold standard. It is not right for everybody. Now all of the advisors at our office, we are really encouraging and paying for them to get their CFP, mostly because I regret not getting that myself. So that was one regret. I already touched on the other one where when we initially started hiring other advisors, we hired that personality type that really wants to go out and start their own business. So that was a mistake, and we course corrected. And now we have the people that they feel very comfortable being part of an organization.

Candace Byrnes (43:37)

It is an understandable mistake, honestly.  

Dean Thurman (43:40)

Yeah. And then the other one is not keeping track of my numbers, the first 20 years of the business. It has really just been the last 10 or 15 years where we kept track of all of our marketing spend and how long a client has been with us and segmenting the book and really running the business like a business. I did not realize what kind of businessperson I was, if you will, that I just want to be a financial advisor that kind of backed into all this “businessy” stuff, even though I had a business degree. So, I wish that I would have really treated my practice like a business earlier on, but course corrected on that as well. From the very beginning.  

Candace Byrnes (44:21)

Awesome. I mean, all three of those I love, so it sounds like there is some advice there. Get your CFP.  

Dean Thurman (44:27)

Yeah, for sure.  

Get your CFP, I do not think you will ever regret doing that. You will not regret working with great people; I do not know anyone that regrets keeping track of their numbers. Unless they are bad numbers, then do not keep track of them.  

Candace Byrnes (44:38)

Yeah, definitely.

No, that is fair. I mean, you jumped into it and were like “let's go.”  

Dean Thurman (44:46)

We backed into a lot of it. That is how many of our listeners muddled their way through the career. That is how I did it. It was a good word. But a lot of it is luck, opportunity, and just backing into something.

Candace Byrnes (45:04)

Honestly, all three of those are amazing, so kudos to you for those ones. So yeah, anyone listening, I mean, that is all three had a lot of substance to them.  

Dean Thurman (45:13)

I have to say, this was Candace's idea for this episode, and I love talking about this business and all the great people that we work with and that we run into as hosts of White Glove seminars and acquired direct seminars over the years. So, I could do this kind of episode time and time again. There is so much to dig into, so thank you, Candace.

Candace Byrnes (45:34)

Of course, thank you.

I mean, so, you know, I am kind of the marketing brains behind our B2B side. So, I totally understand how it goes to have to grab leads and that whole, you know, mindset on a business. It is always very interesting to hear anything that has to do with like when you started out and how you are such a marketing brain yourself too.  

Dean Thurman (45:58)

Do you know why I am a marketing brain?

It is because I am terrible at asking for referrals. I bet you most of the people listening are like, well, why is he not talking about referrals? You know, it is all this marketing. Well, yeah, you go out of business if you do not have referral. I just never felt comfortable asking and I should have. Other people grow their practice like crazy, but that is part of the, remember the personality trait, right? If you do not have that outgoing, charismatic, come out to the golf course, give me a referral personality, which I do not.

Candace Byrnes (46:24)

It is a little silly though because you kind of do.

Dean Thurman (46:26)

Well, you think I do, but I do not. Man, I am like a shaking little chihuahua inside. I just pretend I am not on the outside.  

Candace Byrnes (46:30)

Anyone is going to hear that and be like, I know Dean Thurman.  

Dean Thurman (46:35)

You can ask my co -advisors. I accidentally asked for a referral yesterday. I think it was the first time in 20 years, and they were sitting in the office with me.  

Candace Byrnes (46:42)

Did it work?

Dean Thurman (46:43)

No. So it is going to be another twenty before I do it again.

Candace Byrnes (46:47)

Well, that is okay. You have to have some failures along the way. It would have been a way cooler story though.

All right, well, thank you, Dean. Thank you so much. I mean, I learned so much from you within the industry. You know, just there's so much valuable information here. So, I hope that you also just took even an ounce away wherever you are on your journey. So, thank you so much.  

Dean Thurman (47:12)

I certainly hope so. And thank you, Candice.

Voice Over (47:15)

Thanks for tuning in to the FAST Podcast. We would love to hear from you. Have any questions or comments about the show? You can submit them on our website at WhiteGlove.com slash FAST podcast. The views and opinions expressed by our guests do not necessarily reflect those of White Glove or Invest Wise Financial. The content is provided for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for professional investing advice. Once again, thank you for joining us on the FAST Podcast. 

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